What would you like to do?
Is the narcissist ever sorry and does he ever apologize?
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Yes, they forget insults, the ones they say to you. Narcissists are often vindictive and they often stalk and harass. They hold grudges indefinitely. They rarely forg…et a slight or an insult - real or imagined. They nurture the pain, dwell on it, magnify it, analyze it, and form conspiracy theories to explain it. The narcissist perceives every disagreement ï¿½ let alone criticism ï¿½ as nothing short of a THREAT. He reacts defensively. He becomes indignant, aggressive and cold. He detaches emotionally for fear of yet another (narcissistic) injury. He devalues the person who made the disparaging remark. By holding the critic in contempt, by diminishing the stature of the discordant conversant ï¿½ he minimises the impact on himself of the disagreement or criticism. Like a trapped animal, the narcissist is forever on the lookout: was this remark meant to demean him? Was this sentence a deliberate attack? Gradually, his mind turns into a chaotic battlefield of paranoia and ideas of reference until he loses touch with reality and retreats to his own world of fantasised grandiosity. When the disagreement or criticism or disapproval or approbation are PUBLIC, though ï¿½ the narcissist tends to regard them as Narcissistic Supply! Only when they are expressed in private ï¿½ does the narcissist rage against them. The cerebral narcissist is competitive and intolerant of criticism or disagreement. The subjugation and subordination of others demand the establishment of his undisputed intellectual superiority or professional authority. Alexander Lowen has an excellent exposition of this "hidden or tacit competition". The cerebral narcissist aspires to perfection. Thus, even the slightest and most inconsequential challenge to his authority is inflated by him. Hence, the disproportionateness of his reactions. Still, it is very easy to regain the narcissist's trust and favor by providing him with narcissistic supply. I don't think they ever forget. I knew one who completely out of context brought up a former best friend that was 5" late to a dinner meeting fifteen years ago and she spend five years trying to ruin her life as a reslut of the slight. He is still raging inside about the "incident" and likely will be forever. I had a conversation with mum. Mum told me that sis was borrowing her coat for a while among other info. Mum tells me so much that I make a list so that i don't forget anything. When other siblings wanted to know what mum told me, I told them everything because it was just a cheery phone call of "hello, what's news". Sis was with siblings when I said, "I talked to mum and she said the mailman's wife had a baby, the neighbors cat died, her teapot broke, and sis talked to her yesterday and asked to borrow her coat." Sis got irate. She told me to quit making things up. She said she never asked to borrow mum's coat. I told sis, mum told me that, so take it up with mum. I personally didn't see anything wrong with sis borrowing the coat and didn't understand what sis thought was so objectionable. I thought they had deal and mum didn't complain at all. Sis has been borrowing mum's things for years and showing up at parties wearing mum's things and never hid it from anyone. It was not an unusual incident. The next 3 months sis called every week telling me that mum said she was missing her hat and wanted to know if I had it. I said no. Sis said, "are you sure?" I said, "I never borrowed mum's hat." The next week sis called back and said, "did you borrow mum's hat." I said "no." Then she called again, "mum is missing her hat, did you take her hat?" I said, "no". She said, "are you sure?" I said, "I do not have mum's hat." She said, "mum's hat is missing" (as if I didn't hear her the first 15 times). Then next call, same thing. She said, "mum thinks someone stole her hat. Have you seen it." I said, "no". She said, "are you sure you didn't take it when you visited last?" I said, "I don't have mum's hat, I don't wear hats, no desire for hats and no I don't have mum's hat. For 3 months, and after 50 times saying no, I finally asked, "when are you going to quit asking me if I have mum's hat." She said, "mum said it not me, so take it up with mum." I guess she thinks she got revenge. She thinks that if she uses my own words back on me, that I can't defend myself, or I'd be attacking my own actions and not hers. She didn't realize I was innocent and relaying things from a list that mum told me and had no idea that her borrowing mum's coat would put her on defense. I had no malicious intent. She did have malicious intent and got revenge on me not once, but many times during the next 3 months. I call it revenge with interest. This is just 1 example. This is ongoing with sis. I never know what I did wrong until I hear my own words repeated by to me. That's how I know she is getting revenge. I think it would have been easier when she said, "you are lying" to just say, "you're right, I lied." But who knows what kind of revenge she would have done then. This was a no win situation. She is so on the lookout for people to do her evil, that she perceives attacks where they don't exist. Due to this, I never know when she is going to twist something. Auntie sent sister a get-well card with a letter. Sister said that auntie was accusing her of being a sickly and unhealthy person. I reminded sister that she had a cold a few weeks back. Sister said, "no this is serious, no one would send a get-well card for the common cold." My sisters son is named Jonathan. pronounced "joe-Nathan" not "john athon" No one can remember if it's Jonathon or Jonathan. My sister also has a northern accent that the southern family don't understand all the time. Cousin Mary was writing her a letter but couldn't find the birth announcement and couldn't remember how to spell Jonathan's name. For the last 10 years my sister spelled cousin Mary's name as Marry. My sister never confronted or asked, or said, BTW this is the correct spelling. She doesn't want to clear things up, or allow for apologies. She just seems to enjoy giving a life sentence to people for small, unintentional errors. What exactly is a grudge. I thought a grudge was for 1 mistake in the past that a person never forgave or forget. When I defend myself NOW for something CURRENT, such as, "honey have you seen the mustard" and he says, "I didn't eat all the mustard." and I say, "I didn't say you did, I just want to know if you have seen it, because I overlooked it." He then says, "I'm tired of you accusing me of things, like that time you accused me of patronizing you. I can't take it anymore. I never patronized you. Quit holding grudges. You are a grudge holder." I'm confused here. I have asked him once, very nicely, 15 years ago to please quit patronizing me. He raged, so I never brought it up again. He has never forgotten it. I thought he was the one holding the grudge. Is this an example of projection? No, and they don't forget anything else either. So beware! The insult they have done to others: always. The insult others have done to them: never. They forget promises made to you. Don't pay them in return for something they say they will do. When you ask for it, they will say you need to stop pushing them, and they don't have to do anything. They will say don't be so incredibly selfish . Months later, when they want something, they will apologize for saying something. It will be a very vague apology..."I was stupid. I don't like for us to fight." A year later, if you bring up the fact they lied about doing something in return for money etc., and that you don't get why they did that, they will not remember it. When you say they apologized, they will act surprised. One time I asked why he remembers some conversations so well, and other so poorly. He said that his brain is like a machine, and he gets rid of what he doesn't want. He then said "Don't mess with the machine." I am used to most of his weirdness. Still, the one thing they do go for is an area that you question your own abilities at. Don't complain about someone insulting you. The Narcissist will quickly agree with that person's insult. Narcissists are usually very talented, but can't fully take advantage of it(too controlling.)
Give up. Achieve closure. He doesn't deserve more than what you have already given him. The word "love" is understood by the narcissist to mean "dependence", "neediness", "abi…lity to provide narcissistic supply", "becoming the narcissist's extension and property". In these - distorted and sick - senses of the word, all narcissists love to be loved... A post-mortem of a relationship conducted with a narcissist is very frustrating because it never achieves closure. The narcissist is interested exclusively in allocating blame and generating guilt - not in progressing, developing, atoning, soothing, or concluding anything. Such exercises in futility are best avoided. Narcissistic psychopaths have no friends, or lovers, or spouses, or children, or family - they have only objects to be manipulated. Narcissists have no problem perceiving ideas (many narcissists are intellectually gifted). But they do have a problem perceiving other people's ability to conceive of ideas, to have their own needs, emotions, and preference. Wouldn't you be startled if your television set suddenly informed you that it would rather not work on a Sunday? Or if your vacuum cleaner wanted to befriend you? To narcissists, other people are instruments, tools, sources - in short: objects. Objects are not supposed to have opinions or to make independent choices and decisions - especially if they don't comply with the narcissist's worldview or plans, or if they do not cater to his needs. No! True emotional acceptance means the person must possess normal human emotions such as empathy. Without this emotional base acceptance as you would like it is IMPOSSIBLE. The time for the father to have developed a healthy emotional system is long gone, i.e. infancy and early childhood.
"In love" is such an subjective abstract concept, who is to say that my interpretation of the phrase and yours are the same as each other or anyone else's? One could say that,… truly, if you think you are "in love," then you are. They love the concept that they have a girlfriend/spouse etc. They love love. They do not love the person. They love the ideation/prestige/ of being in love only. It's noticable when they speak in 3rd person ie "my girlfriend and I did....", NOT "Susan and I did...." Their love is conceptual. My N swore I was the love of his life. When I said I loved him too, he would dimiss it by saying, "You're just infatuated with me." It was crazy-making. We couldn't just be two people in love. He had to be "The Lover."
It depends if someone has traits or fully blown NPD. Generally speaking, no I don't think they can. Friendship is based on trust, how can you trust someone who is only friends… with you because of what they can gain from you? . I always find it difficult to tell a narcissist with someone that is just pure selfish and self centered (that doesn't make them a narcissist.) There are also other mental disorders that can have similar symptoms. I just ended an 32 year friendship with a female friend of mine 'K'. I met her when she was 19 and I'm 22 years older. She was very ill with panic attacks and tried suicide and since I'd been through panic attacks several years before I was willing to help her. It was a strange bond to begin with (we were like oil and water) and yet similar in some ways and that's what put me off beat. Because of her illness I thought this could be part of her behavior (I never was nasty, gossipy, back-stabbing or selfish) but then everyone is different. I put up with much to the disgruntlement of my husband and some friends. I'm extremely loyal to family and friends and always remember the cliche 'Don't judge me until you have walked a mile in my shoes!' I HAD walked those miles she was walking through and that should have told me something right there! K started to back-stab me and I as unaware of this until subtle things began to happen. K told me she didn't like me seeing other friends and she didn't like sharing me with some of her friends. I began to realize she was controlling her own environment to keep herself safe. If you told her something it was all over the place (breaking a confidence) and the story didn't even resemble the one I had told her. I began not telling her my private thoughts. Now she is 48 years old and she is extremely immature. Her husband and her aren't getting along because he refuses to bend to some of her demands that aren't fair by telling him what he can and can't do as far as seeing some of his friends (he isn't cheating on her.) I thought she was, but she joined another club (I call it running away from your problems. My husband and I were invited to K's parties when she had them and got to know her biking friends, but only as acquaintances. One evening I got a call from this male friend of hers and he was drunk and accusing me of trying to split up K's marriage. HUH? I blasted this guy and told him to sober up and he had no right to talk to me that way as he didn't even know me. He backed off and was stuttering and stammering. The next day I faced my friend K and told her to knock it off or our friendship was over. She denied saying anything to this male friend and I bounced back, 'Well he couldn't have known any of the things he told me unless it came from YOU and I've never told you to leave you husband.' I also told her that her male friend had said that she had told him how horrible her family was and is to her. This is simply not true because I've known her family for a long time and I always thought she was spoiled. I nicknamed her the 'Drama Queen' and would call her that to her face. K was one of these people that wasn't happy unless there was constant drama around her. It suddenly hit me that K was either narcissistic or had some other mental disorder and she was sucking every ounce of energy out of me and stealing my care free personality from me. I remember a psychologist I worked for telling me, 'When someone makes you more unhappy than happy it's time to kick them out of your life.' So, I went down and faced K one on one. I told her the friendship was over! She looked stunned and had tears in her eyes and I was shocked I didn't even have any sympathy for her, because this girl had done some serious damage to people and had caused great pain and was never aware of what she was doing. She just didn't see how things really were and what she saw simply wasn't happening. She admitted she didn't like sharing her acquaintances with friends and I said, 'If you weren't so busy back stabbing them then you wouldn't have to keep score of who you told what too and you're afraid your lies will catch up with you! You've hurt me for the last time!' With that I walked away, never looked back and it's been almost two months. One part of me feels like a mountain has been lifted from my shoulders and one part of me wants to kick myself in the butt for not ending this relationship sooner. I've come to the conclusion that since we can't know ourselves 100% then we can't be expected to know someone else 100%. Now I'm smarter and choose my friends more carefully. I have friends I've known for 30 or more years and never had the problems I had with K. Now I know what to look out for. Perhaps it was a lesson I had to learn. . The narcissist is no one's friend. Friendship is based on empathy - which the narcissist lacks. . The narcissist may act like he/she is trying to be your friend, but it is not true friendship. It is just a game. The narcissist is only trying to gain value. . In the case with Jo, she sure fooled me as far as the friendship thing went. At first, for five months, she sent me gifts, built up future hopes and dreams, fantasized our future friendship together with me. When we finally met in person, she shunned, mocked, mistreated, bait and switched, unspoken rules, belittled, degraded, ignored, silent treatment me, till I finally confronted her and MADE HER TELL ME WHAT THE HECK WAS GOING ON. She looked at me in the eye and said "I don't like you as a person. In fact, I can't STAND YOU!" This was a lady who sent me an automated birthday card just days before, stating how I was a gift from above and nothing would ever come between us, blah blah blah. This was NOT the first time I ever met her in person, so it was not really a surprise of how things went, though they went on from bad to worse over the course of many weeks of being with her and her family. So, can a N ever be a TRUE friend? She informed me "I don't have friends, Laura, and I told you that to begin with" , must have been in between the "you're my lil friend" "my friend who died would have hand-picked you for me"...guess I missed the part where she informed me that she doesn't HAVE any friends. . What strikes me as particularly sad is that if narcissists might not be able or willing to provide true friendship for others, what does that say about themselves. I have fit into a narcissist role in relationships, with different degrees of knowing and not knowing what I was doing, or calculating with the other person's freely given love. The same has gone for friends, they were good to me and I didn't return that to them. At some point, I invariably felt like I failed myself in these relationships, as well as my friends. I have read a few sites on narcissism that have said that the narcissist tries to maintain individuality and stay away from commitment. I don't mean to create chaos in that view, but I think it's the opposite actually. Narcissistic people don't have coping skills to become independent, healthy people, and that's a great source of resentment. Even with that resentment, you're going to have to relax. No one else is going to fix you. If you're a narcissist, you're going to have to do it yourself, which means a lot of listening and forgiveness of yourself and where you may or may not have been. Please don't entertain a narcissist's self-perceived weakness. Contrary to what I've read on websites, narcissists can learn a lot by being around healthy people with healthy boundaries. This isn't a call to adopt your local-area narcissists for a trip to the zoo, but maybe they can hear about what a zoo is and go check it out for themselves. . My Narcissist friend would say things like "You're my best friend in the world, I would do anything for you." and when push came to shove, he was gone. They don't mean anything they say. They'll look you in the eye and say I love you, you are everything to me, and then the next day they're gone. I don't think it's possible to have a true friend in a narcissist because what makes real friendships is what a narcissist does not possess. . The post above that ends with!" is the most positive I've read about NPD. Believe me, I've been searching and searching for something positive. I happen to be very (but sadly) in love with a man who suffers from this disorder. He has his bouts of bad behavior, but I truly love the deeper, truer, inner part of him that is good. I'm so confused. So sad. Just wanted to acknowledge the positive post I read above. For whatever it's worth, it made me feel somewhat hopeful. Thank you. . == No they can't because they lie to , abuse and betray everyone. They see no fault in doing so, and friendship requires trust, something you should never have for an Narcissist. . It will seem like friendship for a while until you realize that all they are actually thinking is "How does this benefit me?" . I have been in a relationship with a man (almost 18 months) whom I believe, through my lens of objective and subjective observation, exhibits a gradient shade of destructive pathological narcissism. Many hours of reading on this subject, and I'm not in any way qualified to state this kind of diagnosis/label. However, I have done much soul searching and introspection and observation against the backdrop of his relations with friends, their comments about him AND my interpersonal relationship with him. I have witnessed the funny and sometimes uncomfortable laughs and uncanny remarks that his closest friends have made about his eccentric and stubborn behavior. Mostly, they lovingly jest and mock him, roll their eyes at some of his comments or prattle off a comment like "Well that's M. for ya". Perfect strangers have felt alienated by him within moments of meeting him (if he perceives the are inferior to him). He can be downright rude. For this I have made silent facial or quietly stolen verbal apologies to these strangers in the literal wake of his rudeness. Some days, it can feel like walking upon eggshells to be in company with him. I perceive that he has fooled NO ONE but himself. He is very easy to spot in his false bravado...almost within minutes one can detect he has no reasonable side to his thoughts of different subjects. I knew upon our FIRST date that he offered way too much information about himself, made hit and run comments and sweeping generalizations or blanket statements about topics of discussion that were too tricky for him to reason his personal rationale of his opinions. Yet, when I would ask him what weight or relevance he could contribute to his "arguments", he would become easily frustrated as if I were impugning him for his beliefs. He is somewhat overly logical, irreverent and very intelligent in non emotional matters of the mind (almost genius) AND emotionally a wreck...inept to navigating his life with empathy to others feelings or needs or expectations or personal values. He DE-VALUES OTHERS FREQUENTLY. There are countless examples of his remarks where he would disparage or negate acknowledgment of another's achievements to the point you can't help but kind of feel sorry for him. He's between a precocious ten year old and a spoiled rotten ten yer old brat. I am at times embarrassed more for him than any one else. Many times he is the butt of his own hypocrisy. Sometimes when I speak of him like this I feel as if I am getting on my high moral horse and just putting him down. When really,there's nothing more than I would be happy to see him be a fully emotionally evolved man. But he knows no different or better. This is how he has coped for most of his life. "Intimacy" or "into me you see". This is when he is most likely to "rage" with his own fractured emotions. Unable to reason or qualify a nebulous emotion. His emotions are like squishy, slippery jello. If you try to squish the jello, it will just slip out from underneath you hand. He is emotionally elusive, guarded and cannot remember many things of his past (mostly childhood) or false promises that he made the day before. Deny, deny, deny is his way of wiggling out. He'll call you a liar, paranoid, spiteful, controlling if you try to hold him accountable for ANYTHING that does not go his way. You'll always be the bad guy if you upset his sense of self and don't mirror back his reality the way he wants YOU to behave and mimic to his satisfaction. I have mistakenly framed him as a walking wounded, and for that, I have my own fault in staying with him; I want to nurture his wounded side. Which in turn makes me feel that I have a needed importance in placing myself in the path of his wrath. A masochist for his love am I. Sick, I know. We could get into esoteric labels like "Histrionic Personality Disorder"..."Inverted Narcissism" and so on to intellectualize and rationalize my being with him. Suffice it to say that I have my own propensity of neediness and covert manipulation going on in order to preserve or perpetuate my fear of abandonment or loss of control or thoughts that he could change for himself of his own volition. Make no mistake. HE WILL NEVER CHANGE UNDER ORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES. Only thing that changes is me and how I choose to react to him. And so far, I have reasoned a lot of my behavior away and have arrived at trying to LEARN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE from my motives for staying with this gentleman. Many times he is no gentleman at all. He can be a raging monster if you wake the beast inside. In that case I have learned to use humor with him to distract him from himself. I have become quite the comic and sometimes "Court Jester" to my chagrin. That's part of how I survive myself and him. AND SO FAR IT'S ACTUALLY WORKING. That, and moving out of his home so that he cannot control me with possessiveness and jealousy or dictating. Keep excellent boundaries with people of this nature. That's the best advice that I can impart to anyone choosing to relate to a Narcissist. "What are YOU deriving from the friendship/relationship"? Now this question IS the distillation of what people seem to think Narcissists are ONLY partaking in friendship/relationship to begin with, which is "what are they getting from you"? Well, not a person on the face of this earth DOES NOT derive some "thing" or benefit from relation to another. By nature we are selfish and we possess healthy amounts of Narcissism for our own survival. Otherwise we'd get walked over from head to toe. But with Narcissism, it is the selfishness gone awry, off balance and way out of whack. This is what is important to gauge. Just how destructive are his actions affecting you? And you must CHOOSE to stay or go. You cannot be a VICTIM to his ways. You do it to yourself if you choose to let the Narcissist behave badly. On most accounts, he knows no other way. Even though deep down he will have his moments of "awakening" to the guilt and strife that he causes himself and others. He KNOWS that he is hurting and emotionally discombobulated. Only, he rarely can see this in a consistent manner and long enough to make healthy changes in his life. In many ways my boyfriend has been an unwitting teacher to me. He has been a friend and a lover (by measurement of the best that he knows how to be a friend and intimate lover, stunted by his inability to empathize). But by motives he will never truly be able relate to true friendship or altruism without an ulterior motive. Since most of his motives for participating or doing with me I perceive centers around fear of his loss of standing predominant within my life. It is difficult to describe this. For instance, If I ask another male friend of mine to help with a chore, then my boyfriend will become unreasonably jealous accusing me of NOT asking him on purpose in order to be "spiteful" and to make him look bad. One occasion he gifted me a crystal diamond paperweight. One evening before he left for a week long trip out of state, I jokingly told him that the paperweight would be a good defense weapon to use against and intruder while he was not there to protect me. Immediately, he turned 180 degrees what I said and accused me of wanting to "Kill" him with the paperweight. Very odd and uncanny retort, to which I was unable to correct his misconception. From there out he was convinced that I wanted to hurt him to the degree that I chose to remove the paperweight from the house. Once I removed the "object" of his paranoia, he relented. Can Narcissists be a true friend? That is for you to figure out based upon you own subjective experience AND your own motives. Try doing a pros and con's list. This is simple and usually revealing. For myself, I have chosen to love and accept him just the way he is. This is what I have learned most is "acceptance" of another and a term I coined called "ego boot-camp". Facing my own ego has been more of a challenge then ever facing my boyfriend. Accepting him and accepting and loving myself in the face of all the 180 degree fury, blame and contradiction that he will attempt to foist upon me. I feel like I have more introspection then I have ever had before AND more empathy for others than I could have imagined. More accountability for the choices that I make, and less of the blame game for what I perceive others are "doing to me", which really, I'm only doing to myself. (Check out online: The Albert Ellis Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy Institute) All the internal kicking and screaming and denying, the hurt, pain and anger. These are ALL negative traits to harbour, as if I have been "exorcised" or cleansed in some way by having encountered such a person as my boyfriend. Sounds as if I'm hailing him, huh? Nope. It's just a relief to visit the hellish part of one's own existence, live in hell for awhile , and actually come out a wiser and better woman for facing the scariest person of all...myself. I'm just fine the way I am. I love myself and accept myself and narcissist or no narcissist, I'll be okay. I am not responsible for his reactions. This is what it is like (for me) when relating to a person with overcompensating narcissistic personality traits. We cannot control or change now matter how much we think we can influence another. He has unwittingly taught me to be more vigilant of my independence and autonomy and to have more patience with life in general. We are all so very unique as individuals. We are all so very special and tender and resilient. It has been my boyfriend who has ironically taught me that by his fear of NOT being unique; I have come to appreciate even more just how unique each and every beautiful soul exists. Himself included. . I had a friend that was a narcissist. I think it's important to identify what types of people a narcissist preys upon. From my own experience, there are three classifications on the narcissists scale of victims. The "needy" person. They attempt to find inferior targets (I mean inferior in their own mind). They make them feel better about themselves. They get to feel superior. This group would be the traditional "prey" for narcissistic supply. Then, there are targets they perceive to be on their own level; these are the targets they compete with; they always attempt to outdo them in every way, they will lie, manipulate, deceive, etc it doesn't have to be a "real" win, so long as it appears that way. The last classification would be targets that the narcissist envies. They might have position, prestige, power, good looks, knowledge or popularity that the narcissist envies...these targets are the ones they try to suck up to, brown-nose, cultivate a friendship, flatter, etc. An amusing incident with my ex-friend; we were watching a TV program that was highlighting a child prodigy playing the piano. Most normal people would look at the child with admiration....She said wistfully, "They all must envy him." Very typical narcissistic response. Never admire or give credit where credit is due, they want it all for themselves. No one is allowed to be "better" than them in any way I fall in to the "needy" category. I was a perfect victim for this woman. I'm isolated, I suffer from agoraphobia, anxiety neurosis, and OCD. Thinking that she was depressed, insecure, I attempted to do everything I could to make her feel good; I complimented her, I listened to her. Then, it dawned on me, there was nothing coming back. She talked big, but when it really counted, she was never there. If I came to her with a problem, rather than show any kind of sympathy or kindness, she would use the opportunity to tell me how it never would have happened to her, how she would have done it better....not one shred of decency, compassion, or connection; another human beings moment of weakness was nothing more than a moment to exploit, a chance to feel superior She takes every opportunity to give other people a list of her own and her husbands skills, achievements, successes. If someone says they got an A on a test, she got an A+. If she can't distort and stretch the truth to say she got the A+, then her husband, brother, uncle, cousin did it better than you. The lying is sickening. One day, she will say, "I hate chicken", but if it's someone she wants to flatter, she suddenly loves it. This affected me deeply, because I'm lonely, she was one of my only friends; that's why I tried so hard to make it work. I'm still not completely over this, but I'm trying real hard I hope my imput helps others, all the above posts have been extremely helpful to me, and have given me a great deal of insight. . I had a narcissistic friend for over 12 years. In the beginning, she would always cook for me and beg me to stay a little longer and not leave, etc. As the relationship went along, she told me she never really had any friends, how terrible her childhood was, etc. Then came the broken promises, we'll do such and such on Thursday, then on Thursday she'd have an excuse and make more false promises. I admit, I fell for this over and over, as did her 6 children and her husband. The story ended when I moved away and all of a sudden she didn't like me anymore. I tried to ask her why she was so mad at me, and told her I would love her to come and visit whenever she wanted. She said she would never visit. The end. This hurt my feelings for a long time and I just couldn't figure out what I did wrong, especially since after all those years being her friend and her telling me that I'd always be welcome because I was family. But after much soul searching I find that I did nothing wrong other than move away. And since she bad mouthed everyone that didn't do things she wanted or her way, I should have expected the same. No, narcissists cannot be friends, and cannot be trusted. I could never trust this lady to do anything she said she was going to do, or depend on her for anything. Towards the end of our friendship I had to be very careful when I'd call her and exactly what I said because she became so, for lack of a better word, mean. If you think you're friend is a narcissist, and that you can help them, change them, or count on them, it will never happen. . I have a friend like this an we have been friends since high school. Best friends for most of it with our ups and downs. She cycles through people she hangs out with constantly. I have often confronted her on it because I am a blunt person and I will tell you when something bothers me, but with her she just turns it around and its always my fault and im just 'yelling' at her and 'never happy with anything she does'. I have tried to tell her that I care about her and that's why it bothers me and all she can say is 'well if im so horrible then why do you care about me?' I cant seem to get her to understand that I care because I am actually a good normal friend and that's what friends do!! I now know she will NEVER understand, she cannot sympathize with how she makes anyone else feel. She only knows how it makes her feel. . The same thing happened to me when I moved!! Everything came to a head and I barely spoke to her after I left. I didn't say anything for a long time and just recently I finally did because we haven't spoken in five months which I. By the end of the long drawn out conversation of me telling her I care about her and her just saying I was wrong about everything I we are not friends anymore and it's hard! It's particularly hard for anyone going through this that values friendships and is their for their true friends. But she kept saying to me 'if I'm (she's) so bad then why do you care, why do you want to be my friend' and I finally realized as screwed up as some of her comments were (" Yeah, we were best friends but we don't have to be friends forever." Who is saying that??) that I don't need her and she doesnt make me happy. As much as I wish we were friends she won't change, she's been this way for years and sometimes I feel like I'm the only one willing to tell her because she lashes out when you do. I think moving can be the catalyst because they don't really have you there to take your attention so you become a used up source of energy. Sad but true. If you think you're dealing with a very serious, intense, threatening or dangerous Narissist go look up Psychopath on this site. I sometimes think a person whose is narcissistic on the surface may be a Psychopath deep down. This girl dated a bonafide Psychopath for over a year and wouldn't leave him after he mistreated her and I was there everytime she needed me, but she's certainly forgotten that. . The contradictions of a Narcissist are absurd and ridiculous. Yet, a full blown Narcissist will truly believe the following credo and probably smile and brag in agreement, as if someone really understands the way it should be. Be careful if you're writing a helpful contribution to psychology in the form of a dissertation or study, should you wrangle with this type of personality. Otherwise, the sheer audacity will either amuse you or flirt with destroying you. Below are some points you may find familiar... "I am a unique person" ... Since I am superior, I feel an entitlement to special treatment and privileges ... People that are inferior are not entitled to special treatment or privileges ... I don't have to be bound by the rules or laws that apply to other people. I make my own rules and I break or bend laws and rules if it suits my interest ... Other people are bound by my rules. If other people break my rules, they are intolerable ... It is very important to get recognition, praise, and admiration ... If other people get recognition, praise or admiration they are not important to me ... If others don't respect my status, they are beneath me and unworthy of my time ... If I respect other people's status, they are above or equal to me, and therefore, they are worthy of my time ... Other people should satisfy my needs ... I do not want to satisfy other people's needs ... Other people should recognize how special I am ... I do not think that other people are special ... It's intolerable if I'm not accorded my due respect or don't get what I'm entitled to ... It's intolerable if I must accord due respect to others or give them what they are entitled to ... People have no right to criticize me if their actions effect me ... I have a right to criticize others if their actions effect me ... No one's needs should interfere with my own ... I can interfere with other people's needs if they interfere with my own ... Only people as brilliant as I am will understand me ... I do not want to take the time to understand other people unless they are brilliant. . Narcissistic people are always looking for supply. Capable of friendship? Only if you have something they can use. They are the worst "users" in the world. In the beginning, prepare to be romanced regardless of whether it's a male or female and the terms of your relationship. Ns who want to be friends are quite giving in the beginning as this is the most vulnerable time for them sniffing out Narcissistic supply. They will practically offer anything to get this. They are famous for taking others out to lunch, and buying gifts and that sort of thing in order to impress you. If in a business arrangement, they offer to send you endless referrals and business. This is a win/win for them as they get you excited and interested in them, get you hooked to a so-called "referral base" (that usually never occurs...or they send you 1 measly client), and they can withdraw this wonderful non-existant offer when you don't behave according to their standards (got a pimple? That's enough for them!). This costs them nothing as it was really never their intention to help you anyway, but Ns DO tend to believe their own lies while telling them. Because they were so giving in the beginning, the victim of the N is in for a big shock when the novelty of the relationship wears off (Narcissists get bored and of course it's your fault), or you happen to disagree with them. Friendship with an Narcissist has a very short shelf life as there is no room for honesty, intimacy, open self-disclosure, or any other sort of bond. Just at the point when most relationships grow/deepen you will find your Narcissist high-tailing it out of there due to their terror of intimacy. The wounds they create for others is deep. They cause great hurt that does not heal quickly or normally. This is due to their Jeckyl & Hyde behavior. Look to one or both of your parents (siblings too) for your initial training in being attracted to these people. No other sane person would be attracted or tolerate this type of person for any length of time (which is why there is alot of "turnover" in their personal lives). Notice the "healthy" people who seem to run from the Narcissist presence. If you want to be healthy....you better run too. . I have finally come to the conclusion that one of my friends of eight years is a Narcissist. I have done a lot of work on my self-esteem in this time and I realise it's me that's changed, but our friendship just isn't working anymore. I recognise what she does now, whereas before I thought it was my deficiencies that were the problem. Whenever I do something, she does it better, for example when I took up jogging, she started jogging two weeks later, and three weeks after that was signing up for marathons, never once asking how my jogging was progressing. Whenever I express admiration for someone, she expresses a comment along the lines of 'oh I don't think they're that good' with a dismissive shrug. She knows everything (even when she doesn't) and responds to almost every factual statement I make with a 'yes but...'. When I try to tell her anything, I'm constantly interrupted with 'I know...I know that...I knew that...I know...' She doesn't seem to believe in anything except herself (certainly not a higher power of any description), is never impressed by anything, and nothing seems to move her. When she joined Mensa she didn't tell anyone she was taking the test until after the results were in. Because she didn't want anyone to make a fuss (or because she didn't want anyone to know if she failed?). When she went for motorbike lessons and was thrown off the course because she'd never even learned to ride a bike, she professed to never have really wanted to ride a motorbike anyway. She is particularly insufferable when she's been around men who show interest in her, not seeming to understand that they would more than likely be interested in any attractive intelligent woman who showed up at the time. And the lies she has told me to protect the image she has built of herself as an irresistable fountain of desire that no man can resist (even though they all leave after three or four weeks). I don't believe this person can or was ever a true friend. I'm appalled that I allowed myself to be taken in by her but at least now I see her for what she is and disappointed as I am that she's not who I thought she was, I'm able to appreciate the real friends I have all the more. . I have just left my Narcissist because I had no choice; he left me emotionally months ago anyway, the rest was a charade. I told him I was prepared to be friendly. I honestly meant this because I was a bit selfish and wanted to continue seeing his children. Anyway it was not to be. He refuses any contact with me whatsoever. That's fine with me. As for his friends; well he doesnt have any. I don't know one person that wants to be friends with this guy. My children and their partners wanted to be friends but he brushed them aside. Narcissists don't know how to to interact honestly with others. This is what friendships require. . I wrote above about the 12 year friendship with a Narcissist. She has now filed for divorce from her husband (me and he are still good friends), she's turned their 6 kids against him steadily for the past several years. They are both living in the same house pending the divorce, but she left for two weeks to live with her boyfriend, then came home since she has only 3 weeks to pack and get out. She has treated her husband and kids worse than dirt for several years now; the kids don't dare to disagree with her highness, (otherwise she rules the kids every movements) and has always been very unkind to their animals (ie: kicking them, not giving them supper, not giving them their prescribed medications), no one else would do these things but she denies it even when caught red handed. She left her first husband only after finding someone else, she's repeating history. If she wants something she will do anything to get it. She claimed for years that she hated sex, but she has told all her teenage daughters that sex with her new boyfriend is really great after 40. She took her kids to meet the new boyfriend months before filing for a divorce, on the day her youngest was confirmed they went to dinner and met the new man. If it's someone that has been good to her and they want something, that's just too bad. She is a wretched, miserable person, and I'm so glad I finally see the light. I hope her poor abused husband gets his life back together, he deserves it. Everything this woman says is a complete lie. She told so many stories of 'poor me' and now that I know her I don't believe anything she ever told me. She twists everything to fit her needs of the moment. Narcissists are some very lowly human beings, they care about no one else, and I will run not walk if I ever even think about being caught up in a narcissists life again. So not worth it! . No because friends give and take. This person will only take never give and you will one day get enough of their ways if you become friends with them. . A narcissist I thought was my friend (and sometimes I still do!) for many years did bad things to me. I got so tired of the lies I gave an interview to a website (over 20 months ago) I just need to let the truth be out. What is so sad is this Narcissist has tremendous potential!! I have known so many Narcissists, including my mother - and it really does wear you down as a person They believe their lies. That's what's so horrifying and creepy at the same time. . Yes you are so right about them believing their lies. If they promise something and you hold them to it they don't know what your problem is. . Their friends suspect the N has certain traits but see it more affectionately as eccentricity. When you're in a relationship with an N and you live with them, you are the only person who really knows about their destructive behaviour. Even their children don't always know the extent of it. It can be lonely and bewildering. . Mine was so amazing when we met and made so many promises about things that truly affect the centre and substance of your life. Then when you move in with them they do exactly whatever they feel like. Because the good things were so intense it makes it harder to disconnect altogether. What a relationship with a narcissist can teach you is to believe in yourself. It is only when you truly believe in yourself and your connection with the positive energy that exists in the world, and that everyone can connect to, that you will get out. If you feel lonely when you're out, put on a bit of the charm that you saw your narcissist using on others, and you will have friends in no time. And when you have these new friends, treat them right and they'll be good long term friends who bring relationships worth valuing. Then you won't even have time to wonder what that old narcissist was doing! . I think my boyfriend has NPD. Actually we just broke up and it concerns me greatly wether I should remain friends with him or not. We have been together for the past 2 years and let me tell you...they have been the most emotionally insane 2 years of my life. It's like I am addicted to him, yet I always thought there was something off about him. It wasn't proven until I finally found out he was hitting on every woman I knew and some. What did he think? I wouldn't find out?Anyways, I did and was devastated, but I took him back(something I would have never done with other lovers) He acknowledged some bad behaviour but never all of it. He says it was some kind of subconcious test to see if I loved him(???)He drinks alot,smokes alot of pot, drives like a maniac. He has no respect for anyone. He has no friends. Mind you, he has gotten alot better.It used to be a nightmare to bring him out with anyone I knew. He used to go into jealous rages or have weird panic attacks that didn't make any sense. He is friendlier with people, but won't actually call my friends his friends. He wants the world, but can't seem to juggle responsibilities, which leaves me feeling alone in the relationship. He also watches alot of porn, which didn't used to bother me, but our sex life sucks. He was great in bed for a while, but got very lazy(i was doing all the work)He is a very handsome man and I am very attracted to him. So it is very frustrating for me, but he doesn't seem to care. He doesn't seem to care about any of my feelings. I have fallen to sleep crying next to him on countless nights because I feel so unloved, and he just falls asleep, like nothing is wrong. Or he gets irritated, but never does he comfort me. It is truly odd. I honestly feel like the man hates me. But then he says I am his best friend and he loves me so much(????) Narcissism is my only explanation. He lacks empathy. Do I sound crazy? . Just to add to the girl's statement above. I just broke up with my boyfriend (who definitely has NPD). I was dating him for about 8 Months. In the begining everything was amazing. We both hit it off immediatly. Everything from the same addictive love for our favorite baseball team, to our love for all different types of food, to the same movies and television programs in common. We even ate the same cereal and watched the same cartoons growing up. The first date was amazing. We met online, and I didnt waste anytime asking to meet up in person. We had such a great conversation on the phone. And we were both very outgoing strong personalities. So, we met for dinner, at a restaruant that he picked. And just never stopped talking for the next 5 huors. Immedaitely attracted to each other too. Well, we both figured out that we had great jobs, worked and lived in the same cities. Just so many similarities. Immediately I was over his place (always his place and never mine), 3-4 times a week. Spent tons of time together. The first 2 months were the best. He would cook for me all the time, and we just had a great time together. That was also the only time, in those 2 months that he ever paid me a compliment, by telling me that he had never been so attracted to anyone else before. Well, time went by. And after the honeymoon was over, I found it odd that I never got close in his world. Never met any of his friends. But, he also never hung out with any of his friends. He spoke about highschool friends, but never saw them. Then he caught up with some new college friends on Facebook, and maybe saw them once or twice. But that was it. It took him 5 months to let me meet his familly. And then 3 months after that it ended. He said he was missing that "feeling" for me. No attraction. And i noticed the decline after those 2 months, now that I look back. He stopped holding my hand, he stopped just making simple gestures like touching my leg for instance, or even hugging me or holding my hand. Sex was a struggle. And like the girl above, I often would go to bed crying and upset. And he would show me no compassion, or even emotion. When he broke up he told me he loved me and I was his best friend, and had been for the whole relationship. Well, he didnt hang out with anyone or talk to anyone, so of course I was. And he feared losing me in his life. Well I have tried to be friends with him. But it is just as cold as he was when he was dating me. It is limited to emails only. But, even that is just pointless. NPD's do not have empathy or care about anyone. They are photocopies of people. And it is a sad exisitence. I am glad I was not the girl he dated for 3 years, and then decided to break up with, for the same reason. I got out of it easy. But it was not without hurt or pain.
Pathological narcissism is a defense mechanism against the hurt and threat of ealy childhood abuse. The narcissist is, therefore, in a constant state of inner turmoil, conflic…t, insecurity, and rage.
\n. \n Answer \n. \nOnly if they are not "done" with you. If they have secured a backup\nfor you,you will be discarded,never frogiven and shut off .All as if you never …\nexisted and are worth nothing.\n. \n Answer \n. \n. \nno\n. \n. \n Answer \n. \nYes, they will say they forgive, but all they want is to use you for narcissistic supply. It is really quite sad. Here is an actual excerpt from an email I received from my ex-husband after his girlfriend left him and his best friend dumped him. He had reached the bottom of the barrel for narcissistic supply and thus he turned to me:\n. \n"I hope you are doing well. I know very hard feelings have passed between\nus, but to be brutally honest it is very hard for me having shared as\nmuch of my life with you as I did not to miss some pleasant conversation\nwith you from time to time.\n. \nI would like to catch up if you would be open to that at all. It will\nnot have much effect on your life and it might even make you feel happy.\nI can not speak for you, but I prefer to make any situation which\ncarries sad connotations into something slightly more pleasant rather\nthan leave the bitter bitter. I promise I would not expect you to speak\nto me with regularity, I would just like to talk with you because I miss\nour conversations."\n. \nNote how seductively and insistantly he is trying to get me to talk to him. He knows that once a conversation starts he can likely gain the upper hand. He will tell me anything to get that, including that he forgives me. But he will avoid using the word "forgive" if possible. It's sort of a dirty word for a narcissist. They hate to admit they were wrong, but when lacking NS, they will say anything. \nTo clarify, this is a man who hasn't spoken to me or checked up on his baby daughter in eight months. He's not interested in me or his child. He's interested in getting his need for NS met.\nNote also that although hard feelings have passed, he's not clear about what they were (he's forgotten because they were not HIS hard feelings) and he's mainly interested in reminiscing because it would please him. He does offer something in return (I might "feel happy") but note the odd passive voice. Not "I will make you happy" but "it might make you feel happy" as if I am something he can manipulate like an instrument. His whole tone is odd. I hope you will find this instructive as an authentic example of a narcissist in full seductive mode. I merely find it tiresome at this point, and I expect I have many more years of these annoying and pathetic attempts to come before he finally gives up for good.\n. \n Sham 'forgiveness' \n. \nIf a narcissist says he or she forgives, it is the 'forgiveness' of an emotional vampire seeking a top-up, a quick 'fix'.\n. \n Answer \nNarcissists are scorekeepers. Nothing is ever really put to rest with "forgiveness." They will forget that they forgave you, then the ambient hostility begins anew. Pretty soon they are overtly re-hashing long dead issues and hoping to always "make you pay."
I've been married to a Narcissist for 10yrs. It's not that easy of a question to answer. NPD's need their Narcissistic supply. If they feel threatened that they might be loosi…ng their supply then they will tell you they are sorry. NPD's usually are pathologicla liers. They have a creative way of balancing their lives so that they may receive what it is they need from each individuale person. It's not a feeling of regret or admitence that they have actually done something wrong, it's simply a way of manipulation. So to sum up...yes they are sorry but for entirely selfish reasons. An NPD can not feel empathy and are capable of creating their own moral system. In other words, they never feel they are wrong because due to their delusions of granduer, they are capable of justifing their actions no matter how unjust they might be. It sound complicated at first...but if you continue to read and study the disorder your NPD's peronality will become entirely predictable. Good Luck!! NEW ANSWER: Answer above is spot on, they will apologise in order to keep the supply going, it isn't sincere, purely selfish, BUT, once they get you into position and it happens fairly quickly anything they do that's hurtful to you they will NOT apologise, as my N would tell me YOU FORCED ME TO DO/SAY THOSE THINGS, how sick is that?
I would say "No". Because in the narcissist's warped mind, anything they do to help their cause is never wrong, therefore they never need apologize. However, they may APPE…AR to apologize if that may help their cause, for example to re-establish contact with somebody who still has something to offer them.
i left three of mine
No. . and if they SAY they do? they just get better at sneaking and covering up. . run!
No - absolutely not....
Its never late too apologize. Even if she/he doesnt approve it in the future you will know it was worth it.
NEVER!!! Lust, potentially - but that lust is more grounded in the realms of financial, status-related, or intellectual conquest. Love requires giving of the self in a sel…fless way - a Narcissist is ALWAYS in it for what they can get out of it when it comes to giving. They will condition you or try to pull admiration and appreciation out of you with what they give. Also, in order to love someone else and accept them for who they are you have to be able to accept yourself! The narcissist only accepts the mask they show the world, not their true self. And they don't even see you as another human - to them, you are just an object to be manipulated.
Generally, that won't work due to the very nature of the personality disorder. Narcissists are not open to criticism, even constructive criticism. Individuals with narcissi…stic personality disorder are typically unwilling or unable to acknowledge their disorder. Although some may recognize the difficulty they have in their relationships with other people, they blame others for those problems. They are typically unable to modify their behavior. They have a conviction that they can do no wrong. One of the striking hallmarks of NPD is the utter lack of self awareness. They often have a defective ability to interprete other people's speech and actions which leads them to think they are liked and respected and the world agrees with their inflated sense of self. Many do not recognize that they have a problem at all. If they do suspect they have a problem they are more likely to step up their self defenses, reject outside intervention and avoid introspection at any cost and so they are doomed to repeat their failures and mistakes..
In theory, it's possible for a narcissist to feel sorry. Adiagnosis for NPD doesn't really require a lack of empathy and agod complex isn't even one of the criteria. Unfortuna…tely, I'venever seen any reports of a narcissist feeling genuine remorse.This could simply be because we don't think of anybody who cangenuinely feel remorse as a potential narcissist.