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The system of referring to people who have the same name as Junior and Senior is completely separate from the system of numbering them as first, second, third, etc. The two systems cannot be used together.

If a grandfather, son, and grandson are all named Joseph, then Grandfather is Joe the First, son is Joe the Second, and grandson is Joe the Third. If there is a great grandson, he can be Joe IV. These numbers apply forever.

The alternative is to call Grandfather Joe, Sr., and son Joe, Jr. There is no title available in this system for grandson as long as Joe, Sr., is alive. And when grandfather dies, his son need not continue to be Joe, Jr. Indeed if son produces a grandson, then son can become Joe Sr., and grandson can be Joe, Jr. In other words these titles can change with the changing circumstances of life.

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Q: Does the order go Sr Jr 1st 2nd or is Sr considered 1st and Jr considered 2nd?
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