Who owns sabah?

Answer 1

The territory of Sabah belongs to the people of Sabah who in 1963 legally formed Malaysia federation as a act of self determination.

In 1865 Charles Lees Moses obtained from the Sultan of Borneo a lease on Sabah (north Borneo) for 10 years he then sold the lease to Joseph William Torrey as the lease came to an end he sold his remaining rights to the Consul of the Austro Hungarian empire Baron Von Overbeck who in 1875 obtained a renewal.

In 1878 he became Maharajah of Sabah and Raja of Gaya and Sandakan making him the legal overlord of the territory 3 weeks later he aquired the lesser title from Sultan of Sulu whose power was in question and who was colonized only a few months later by the Spanish.

In 1885 the Spanish agreed to recognise the territory of North Borneo as British in the Madrid protocols the Sulu Sultans cannot make any claims as they were no longer in power over their own territories.

In 1903 in a confirmatory deed Sulu sultan Jamulural Kiram II confirmed the cession of Sabah and furter Islands to the British North Borneo company in return for a further 300 Pesos (Mexican) his loss of power and lands meant he was in no position to control anything and he was simply securing a pension for himself and his heirs.

In 1938 his heirs arrived in the Borneo high court to argue for resumption of cession fees as it had been stopped (due to Kiram having so many heirs no one knwe who was the legal heir and who was not he himself appointed 9 heirs which was unrealistic) the judge agreed and confirmed the land was ceded.

In 1942 Japan conquered North Borneo and dissolved ANY previous agreements therefore the previous treaties spoken herein are invalid including the 1878 treaty Sulu reguluraly thumps in the air ignoring all other agreements prior to this one and after it.

Please note Sabah according to the Brunei side sabah was never given to Sulu which is why the Brunei sultan appointed Von Overbeck over lord of Sabah Sulu's ONLY claim is through the tributes they frightened the people into paying to them (they were pirates and raiders similar to the Vikings of Europe) there is NO CESSION treaty between Sulu and Borneo (Brunei).

Also note in the Suluk and British versions of the agreement in 1878 Sabah was and has been leased/ceded in perpeuity meaning forever UNTIL the sun and moon no longer rise since they are still rising Sulu has no claim.

Laws of decolonisation of the United Nations and the laws of effective control are both in Malaysias side also note to any Filipino who might see this International court of Justice is not AN option as would Philippines go to ICJ over Mindanao? Also the people of Sabah freely chose to join Malaysia if their vote was disregarded and their contribution to Malaysia (which is great) the people would choose to leave Malaysia and neither Philippines/sulu or Malaysia will get it.

there are no other points that can challenge this as 1878 agreement is null and void by modern thinking.

Answer 2

North Borneo, formerly known as Sabah, was originally ruled by the Sultan of Brunei. In 1704, in gratitude for help extended to him by the Sultan of Sulu in suppressing a revolt, the Sultan of Brunei ceded North Borneo to the Sulu Sultan.

Here, our claim really begins. Over the years, the various European countries, including Britain, Spain and the Netherlands acknowledged the Sultan of Sulu as the sovereign ruler of North Borneo. They entered into various treaty arrangements with him.

In 1878, a keen Austrian adventurer, by the name of Baron de Overbeck, having known that the Sultan of Sulu was facing a life-and-death struggle with the Spanish forces in the Sulu Archipelago, went to Sulu, took advantage of the situation and persuaded the Sultan of Sulu to lease to him, in consideration of a yearly rental of Malayan $ 5,000 (roughly equivalent to a meager US $ 1,600), the territory now in question. The contract of lease — and I call it so on the basis of British documents and records that cannot be disputed here or abroad — contains a technical description of the territory in terms of natural boundaries, thus:

“…all the territories and lands being tributary to us on the mainland of the island of Borneo commencing from the Pandassan River on the NW coast and extending along the whole east coast as far as the Sibuco River in the South and comprising among others the States of Peitan, Sugut, Bangaya, Labuk, Sandakan, Kinabatangan, Muniang and all the other territories and states to the southward thereof bordering on Darvel Bay and as far as the Sibuco River with all the islands within 3 marine leagues of the coast.”

Overbeck later sold out all his rights under the contract to Alfred Dent, an English merchant, who established a provisional association and later a Company, known as the British North Borneo Company, which assumed all the rights and obligations under the 1878 contract. This Company was awarded a Royal Charter in 1881. A protest against the grant of the charter was lodged by the Spanish and the Dutch Governments and in reply, the British Government clarified its position and stated in unmistakable language that “sovereignty remains with the Sultan of Sulu” and that the Company was merely an administering authority.

In 1946, the British North Borneo Company transferred all its rights and obligations to the British Crown. The Crown, on July 10, 1946 — just six days after Philippine independence — asserted full sovereign rights over North Borneo, as of that date. Shortly thereafter former American Governor General Harrison, then Special Adviser to the Philippine Government on Foreign Affairs, denounced the Cession Order as a unilateral act in violation of legal rights. In 1950, Congressman Macapagal — along with Congressmen Arsenio Lacson and Arturo Tolentino — sponsored a resolution urging the formal institution of the claim to North Borneo. Prolonged studies were in the meanwhile undertaken and in 1962 the House of Representatives, in rare unanimity, passed a resolution urging the President of the Philippines to recover North Borneo consistent with international law and procedure. Acting on this unanimous resolution and having acquired all the rights and interests of the Sultanate of Sulu, the Republic of the Philippines, through the President, filed the claim to North Borneo.

Our claim is mainly based on the following propositions: that Overbeck and Dent, not being sovereign entities nor representing sovereign entities, could not and did not acquire dominion and sovereignty over North Borneo; that on the basis of authoritative British and Spanish documents, the British North Borneo Company, a private trading concern to whom Dent transferred his rights, did not and could not acquire dominion and sovereignty over North Borneo; that their rights were as those indicated in the basic contract, namely, that of a lessee and a mere delegate; that in accordance with established precedents in International Law, the assertion of sovereign rights by the British Crown in 1946, in complete disregard of the contract of 1878 and their solemn commitments, did not and cannot produce legal results in the form of a new tide.

Laymans Logic 1: Friend A officially gave/transferred ownership of the land to Friend B. Friend B Grant rights(not Ownership) to Friend C to use the Land in exchange for Profit. Now Friend C acted like it owned the Land And try to Sell it like he owns it.. So who still own the land?

Laymans Logic 2: First Owner (sultan of Brunei) gave/ceded(transfer of ownership) a Property to somebody( Sultan of SUlu). -- thus that somebody already own(Sultan of Sulu) the Property.. Now the NEW OWNER, gave RIGHTS(NOT TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP) to somebody to exploit the land, profit from it and pay the NEW owner. So who owns it? Still the Sultan Of brunei? howcome? Is there a TRANSFER OF OWNERSHIP? NOne.. Is there a transfer of Rights to exploit the land.. YES. So clearly there is NO transfer of ownership