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Shotguns

Ask questions here about shotguns produced by various manufacturers such as Lefever Arms Co, Iver Johnson Arms, and Harrington & Richardson.

10,990 Questions

When was the diamond arm shotgun invented?

Diamond Arms Company: Trade name used by the Shapleigh Hardware Company of St. Louis, Missouri on shotguns they retailed. Probably manufactured by J. Stevens Arms, but possibly a Belgian import. Look for an oval around "ELG*". If it has it, it is Belgian, but most of these imports stopped coming over when WWI started.

Can you mount a scope on a shotgun?

Yes you can, they're often used with rifled bores to hunt deer. Most gun shops should be able to help you pick out an appropriate mount and scope.

What is a Baker shotgun worth?

i am trying to find info on the baker too, mine is a 12ga side by side with the twisted barrel. i found 5 different bakers listed in the 1997 gun trades guide. batavia ejector $774, leader hamerless $450, special $325, black beauty $750, grade r $1000, grade s $765, and paragon $1500-$3700. I'm not sure which if any of these model is mine or how to tell them apart, there is a brief description for each. glen gbalko@sbcglobal.net

AnswerYou can add three more grades - Paragon Model NN (special order only), Expert Grade, and Deluxe Grade - with even higher prices listed. The Standard Catalog has pictures, but not good enough to really determine the grade of the one in-hand. Most found have only the simplest engraved scene or none at all and have 'been through the mill' with little or no original finish remaining which takes them out of the collector class. The Blue Book indicates that these 'no finish' guns are typicaly priced in the $275-$400 range. AnswerI have a Baker 12 ga. that appears to have the damascus twist barrels, but it is stamped on the sideplate: "New Era Nitro Hammerless." Does this mean it is really a twist-look pattern, and able to take more powerful loads? AnswerBAKER SHOTGUNS ARE ONE OF THE ORIGINAL BIG SIX OF AMERICAN GUNS THIS LIST INCLUDES PARKER, LEFEVER, A.H. FOX, LC SMITH, ITHACA, AND BAKER. BAKERS ARE TRUE SIDELOCK SHOTGUNS AND GRADES ARE DETERMINED BY THE AMOUNT OF ENGRAVING ON THE SIDE PLATES. THE BATAVIA LEADER AND BLACK BEAUTY FOR EXAMPLE HAVE COLOR CASEHARDENED SIDELOCKS BUT NO ENGRAVED SCENES, THE R AND S SERIES ARE HIGH GRADE BAKERS WITH MODESTLY ENGRAVED SIDELOCKS. THE PARAGON, EXPERT AND DELUXE GRADES ARE ALL MADE TO ORDER OR "BESPOKE" GUNS. PARAGON GRADES HAVE SCENES OF POINTERS (DOGS) ON THE SIDELOCKS AND USUALLY HAVE THE BUYERS INITIALS ENGRAVED ON THE TRIGGER GUARD, DELUXE AND EXPERT GRADES WERE INTRODUCED IN 1919 AND ALL HAD A NEW CROSSBOLT LOCKUP AS WELL AS ENGRAVED RECEIVERS AND SIDELOCKS. BAKERS ARE NOT AS WELL KNOWN AS PARKERS/AH FOX BUT ARE EVERY BIT AS WELL MADE AND COLLECTABLE. WM BAKER WAS INSTRUMENTAL IN FOUNDING LC SMITH AND ITHACA GUN COMPANY. AnswerAccording to Baker all of their shotguns are safe with smokeless powders however they advise use of "moderate loads". Laminated, twist steel and damascus barrels are as strong as fluid steel but they can deteriorate over time. Remember that damascus/twist barrels are composed of thousands of small welds and that these welds can separate especially where the barrels are joined at the rib. These cracks are not visible and can cause the barrel to burst when fired. Have a competant gunsmith check it out before you use it better yet have it magnafluxed this procedure can detect cracks in metal up to 1/4 inch deep. Be safe wear shooting glasses and use low power loads (aguila minishells). Answer"According to Baker"??? Have you had recent contact with the company? They may have advertised that all their guns were safe with nitro or smokeless powder in 1933, but there have been changes since the company went out of business. AnswerWHAT IS MEANT BY ACCORDING TO BAKER IS THAT THE COMPANY WAS FAMILIAR WITH SMOKELESS POWDER IN THA LATTER 1800`S AND CLAIM TO HAVE BUILT THEIR FIREARMS TO ACCEPT BOTH SMOKELESS AND BLACK POWDER SHELLS. THIS INFORMATION WAS LISTED IN THE BAKER GUNNER CIRCA 1919, I OWN A BAKER PARAGON GRADE WITH DAMASCUS BARRELS AND HAVE HAD IT TESTED FOR CRACKS ETC. AND HAVE SUCCESSFULLY FIRED SMOKELESS ROUNDS THRU THE FIREARM. I DO NOT PROFESS THAT ANYONE SHOULD FIRE SMOKELESS THRU ANY OLD GUN AND IT IS UNDERTAKEN WITH A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RISK, HOWEVER, IF IT PASSES INSPECTION BY A COMPETENT GUNSMITH AND MAGNAFLUX IT MAY BE SAFE. THEN AGAIN IT MAY NOT BE BUT YOU CAN PUT THE ODDS IN YOUR FAVOR BY USING LIGHT LOADS OR TO BE EVEN SAFER DON`T FIRE IT AT ALL. AnswerMy point exactly. Do not trust what you read in an 85 year old catalog. It was correct then, but modern smokeless powder and loads are NOT the same as the "white nitro" powder used in the early 20th century. I would suspect that this gun is chambered for 2 9/16 inch shells, which you will not find on the shelf at Walmart, or even most sporting goods stores. AnswerYou have raised a very good point and one that I had not considered, the advances in smokeless powder. The Paragon shotgun I refer to has 2.75 inch chambers and the use of aguila minishells (1.75 inch) keeps chamber pressures low. Even with the use of low power loads I wear a steel mesh butchers glove when firing the Baker. It is still risky at best and I don`t recommend this to anyone. This shotgun is in mint condition with bright bores used only for trap back in the day.

Where can you find information about a Neumann Bros shotgun?

Neumann Freres was in business in Liege, Belgium from 1863 until 1957. Thousands of their double-barrel shotguns were imported to the US (marked with English "Bros." instead of French "Freres") prior to WWI. Value to a shooter = $0, to a collector = $200 (but only if in as-new condition), to a decorator for a mantlepiece = $125-$150.

When was a J.C. Higgins 16 gauge bolt action shotgun model 583.14 made?

My cross-reference list says this is actually a Harrington & Richardson Model 120. Sears Roebuck sold firearms with the J.C. Higgins brand name from the 1940's into the 1960's or later.

H&R only produced the Model 120 during 1941 and 1942.

The Sears J. C. Higgins 583.14 was manufactured by The High Standard manufacturing Corp. in the later 1940's or early 1950's

What is the value of a 16 gauge Knickerbocker shotgun?

How much is a V-8 Ford worth? It depends on the model and condition, but in general these old utility guns will bring $100-$150 for a double barrel or $50-$75 for a single shot. It also depends on your location. Seems they are worth more on the West Coast than in the Mid-West. Don't know about Back East prices.

Answer

Are those "asking prices" or they actually selling at that level? It seems high to me, but then I don't have any for sale and am not interested in buying any.

What are facts about Nitro Leader 12 gauge shotguns?

Not sure if this is your gun, but Leader Gun Company was a trade name used on shotguns retailed by the Charles Williams Stores, Inc. of New York. Most likely manufacturer would be Crescent Arms, Norwich, CT. "Nitro" would imply proofed for smokeless powder.

What are facts about E M Reilly shotguns?

Reilly made or marked shotguns from the late percussion era (say 1860) through about 1915. I've seen many hammer guns, fewer hammerless, but both side lock and box lock. Their name also appears on handguns and rifles. Quality seems to be higher than average, with most guns showing good engraving and better than average wood. Most barrels are damascus, but I've seen Whitworth, and many have been "tubed" in the modern era. Generally nice pieces, and you'll most likely be quite happy with your find!

Did the Spencer Arms Co make a 20 gauge double barrel with concealed hammers?

Not the Spencer that made the Civil War era carbines. The Spencer name was used on shotguns by several firms. H. Spencer & Company guns were manufactured by Henri Pieper, Leige, Belgium, for Henry Spencer & Co., Chicago Illinois, in the early 1880's. Spencer Gun Co was marked on guns manufactured by Crescent Firearms and distributed by H&D Folsom to various hardware and mercantile retailers c. 1900-1940. Baker Gun Company, Batavia, New York, and Hopkins & Allen, Norwich, CT also marked shotguns with the Spencer name c. 1900.

Where can you find information about Knickerbocker shotguns?

Not a lot of information. It was a trade name retailed (I believe) by H&D Folsom of New York City. The guns were made by Crescent, Crescent-Davis, and/or Stevens c. 1890-1940.

What is the value of an Ithaca double barrel shotgun from the early 1900's with the number 190 650 stamped on boththe metal and wood?

about $100 if with hammers and $200 if a hammerless model

You should be able to find your gun listed in The Blue Book of Gun Values, The Standard Catalog of Firearms, or Gun Trader's Guide. Your local library should have a copy, or you can just browse through one at Barnes & Noble. I imagine the value of your shotgun would depend entirely on an independent appraisal to determine NRA grade. Look near the serial number stamping on the barrel-side surface of the forearm - is there an "F" stamped nearby? If so, I believe you have an Ithaca Flues-model double like mine, manufactured around 1910 and originally selling for about $37 (1910 dollars). I've never had mine appraised but would not sell it anyway, just because it's a hoot to shoot and stays tight with their automatic play-in-the-action-takeup thingamabob. It wouldn't be worth quite as much as the Ithaca New Model doubles that followed the Flues but should be in the ballpark, and there are a lot more New Models out there for reference. As long as you have the serial number, I should mention that information on individual guns was available from Ithaca, but that was back in 1971. Good luck, and if you keep it, good hunting! Here's something I just found that might help you - this gun may be similar to yours: http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=21_24_66&products_id=622

Is is safe to shoot factory loads in an old shotgun?

No one can answer that without examining the gun. Armory steel would have been almost certainly intended for smokeless powder, but what has happened to the gun in the last 80-100 years could make it unsafe now. Also, depending on just how old it is, the chambers may be only 2 1/2". Have a competent gunsmith check it out.

How do you know if you have damascus barrels?

Quite often the shotgun will tell you how the barrels are made. If it says "twist" or "laminated" or "damascus", then it is one of the types generally called damascus. If it says "armory", "forged", or "fluid" then it is a more modern construction. Damascus barrels will show a pattern, although it can be covered with bluing or the pattern can be simulated. You can check by removing the forearm and polishing a small spot on the bottom of the barrel. This will remove either the bluing that hides the pattern or the simulated damascus pattern. As far as safety, the best damascus constructed barrels are stronger than a low-quality fluid steel barrel, and probably equal to most when new. But time will weaken the welds, so it is wise to retire an old damascus gun unless you know it has had proper care for its entire lifetime. Since your gun is marked for smokeless powder, it is PROBABLY fluid steel and PROBABLY has 2 3/4" chambers, but if you intend to shoot it, have it checked by a competent gunsmith and follow his recommendations.

Damascus barrels were made to be used with black powder and so are thicker at the breach (to handle the fast explosion of powder) and thinner at the muzzle, as black powder. Due to the fact that modern smokeless powder buns at a slower pace, thus building up more pressure towards the muzzle which could cause the metal to split or rupture, it is not recommended that modern ammo be used in a Damascus barrel.

What is the value of 'The Sportsman' Remington auto-shotgun purchased new in the late 30s or early 40s?

OK, by finding the Sportsman in an old reference I discover that it is the Model 11C. When I find that model in a newer book, it is indeed built under license from FN using the Browning Auto 5 patent. Suggested value in NRA Very Good condition is $250 and $300 in Excellent.

What is the value of a Tobin Arms shotgun with a hard bound leather case?

I don't find much about Tobin Arms Co. except that it was in Norwich CT around 1860, and that the G.B. Crandall Company Limited of Woodstock, Ontario, Canada retailed a shotgun of unknown manufacture with the trade name Tobin Simplex. Unless your gun has something special (fancy wood, hand engravings, precious metal overlays), it is going to be just another old trade-name utility shotgun worth $125-$150. The leather case may be worth more.

Good evening;

I have a collection of Tobin shotguns and would be interested in discussing your shotgun with the possibility of purchasing it should it still be available. Would appreciate your reply even if you no longer have the firearm. Regards. Louis

i have a tobin also that is engraved to the max and it is said by a couple of dealers locally it is worth about 3500 for the engraving but the regular price for tobins is said to be 200- 1000. yes it is for sale....Bob

T Barker shotgun parts?

A gunsmith should be able to find or fabricate the parts for you. Check your yellow pages.

I' not sure if you can get new parts or not. I have a LH hammer for a T. Barker. Let me know if you still need one.

You can't get a NEW barrel unless you have it custom made for a couple thousand dollars. Finding a used replacement would not be easy since this brand name was made for Sears Roebuck by several manufacturers c 1910.

What is the value of a Hopkins and Allen shotgun?

I hope someone answers this. I too have an old Hopkins & Allen 12 GA double barrel that I would like to know the value of. Someone told me that typically, the Hopkins & Allen brand was mostly a mail order product long ago. I've been told that as it was a mail order product, most likely there were a fair amount of these produced & the value probably was not substantial. I'm not a gun expert, but I have been to a fair amount of gun shows & thumbed through allot of gun books. I've never seen another Hopkins & Allen shotgun just like mine. I've seen a few that were similar, but not the same. One interesting thing on my shotgun is that every mating part has the serial # stamped on it. (a 4 digit #) I really like my old Hopkins & Allen, it has the external hammers to fire it. One of the hammers does not lock correctly, you have to pull the trigger forward for that hammer to get it to lock. I think a spring completes that task inside the gun normally, but mine has a broken one. The other hammer works correctly though. I used to use the gun a lot partridge hunting years ago & did some trap shooting with it too. I believe mine belonged to my great grandfather & when I'm done with it, I will hand it down to my boy. I won't part with it.

Where can you purchase parts for an American Arms shotgun?

It should only cost a few dollars if it only needs the firing pin replaced. Your shotgun is only worth $50-$75 as a shooter (but have the gunsmith verify that it is safe) and about the same as a decorator (wouldn't need the firing pin anyway). So, economically, it's probably not worth the expense.

Where can you find the value of a C S Shattuck shotgun?

You have a well-made, but unexciting, firearm. Not really suitable for sporting purposes due to its age (possibly laminated barrels and probably short chambers) and not something sought by "serious" collectors (that means the ones who have money to burn). It really has value only as a mantle decoration. $75 if it is a single shot, up to $250 if it is a double with big side hammers.

Who made a 16 gauge Eastern Arms shotgun and when?

Answer

Eastern Arms was a trade name of Sears Roebuck. From about 1905 - 1915 it would probably have been made by Meriden Firearms, a company owned by Sears. Later guns were probably made by J. Stevens Arms. But since the low bid got the contract, some were made by Crescent, Iver Johnson, and others.

Sears sold guns under the Eastern Arms name after WWII as well. Eastern Arms guns made by Stevens were marked 101.7. Any guns sold by Sears that were made by Marlin were marked 103.xx with numbers after the decimal indicating a specific model.

How much is a hanover arms double barrel shotgun worth?

Hanover Arms was a trade name distributed by H&D Folsom. Actual manufacturer was probably either Crescent Arms or one of several Belgian firms. Date would be the very late 1800s to around 1930. Value will depend on it's condition but in "average" functioning condition around $150.

No one can tell you if a gun is safe to use over the internet. If the firing pin is the only thing needing repair, any competent gunsmith should be able to fix it for less than $50 I'd guess. He should also be able to tell you if the gun appears to be safe and what ammunition is suitable. Since you said firing "pin" and not "pins" I will guess that you have a single shot, so the top value would be about $75. If this particular gun has a sentimental value, you may wish to have it repaired, but if you just want a useable single barrel shotgun, your 'smith might take yours in trade as a parts gun for a newer utility gun at about the same difference as repairing yours.

Where can you find parts for a 410 Sears and Roebuck Model 101.1380 shotgun?

That should be a Savage/Springfield Model 18. If you can't find parts from a local gunsmith, try http://www.e-gunparts.com

i have a sears roebuck bolt action .410 shotgun model 110.1120 3''. i need the shell ejector piece. to get a clip for a shotgun try marlinguns.com.

What is the age and value of an E James and Loveby shotgun?

E. James & CoEnos (or Enoch) James & Company was an English gunmaker c. 1870-1920. One source says Birmingham and another says London, but both give the address as 14 St. Mary's Row. I cannot find any reference to Loveby, but this may be a retailer. Another possibility is that this is a Belgian gun marked with a name similar to the British - international copyrights weren't rigorously enforced in those days. If you will post all the markings and tell where each is found on the gun, we may be able to make a positive identification.

More input:

  • E. James & Co Loveday ST Birm M I Have a Double barrel with these markings ,but it is missing the under lever and hammers. If you have the same type gun perhaps you could send a picture of what it is suppose to look like as I am going to have my gunsmith fabricate them Thanks Frank
  • I have a enos James & co double barrel serial# 115771 shotgun and it is complete.

How do I send you a picture?

What model of Baikal O/U shotgun would be good for hunting for around 450-550?

AnswerI would recommend IZH27 Nickel.It's a 12 gauge over and under.Has interchangable chokes.You can check them out at EAA Corp AnswerI have the 12ga model, and am buying my son the 20ga model this week. I shot in a skeet tournament last Fall and my EEA 12ga outperformed some of the $5k models guys like to flaunt. Boils down to the shooter, and clearly this inexpensive shotgun did the job as expected. Check "gunbroker.com" for a $400 average price on any model!! Good luck, happy shooting! AnswerI have 4 of them, 20Ga S/S, 28Ga o/u, .410 s/s, and a.410 o/u. They are good. I've gotten 50 out of 50 clays with the 20 and 28 and 49 out of 50 with the .410s. They can do 50 out of 50, I can't. I've used the 20ga. and .410s on rabbit, dove, quail, and squirrel. Baikals are fun guns.