How many German noncombatants were killed by British and American pilots in Dresden?

Answer 1

How many were murdered??? ZERO!!! How many were casualties? The numbers vary, but 135,000 is certainly a number that most will agree upon. WW 2 became a "total war" where there were no noncombatants. If those women & children contributed in any way to the war effort, then to remove them from that effort meant a quicker victory for the Allies. The same plan that Hitler & the Axis had when it tried to "Blitz" England to her knees in 1940. The U.S. was lucky in that her civilian population basically went unscathed during WW 2. Most other nations were not so lucky.

Richard V. Horrell WW 2 Connections.com

Dear Dave

Your question is really a statement. The matter of how many people died in the Dresden bombings is as such not very interesting I think, since they are all long dead now anyway, but the phenonema of effective annihilation of entire modern cities, as a means of war, is highly interesting. To me at least.

As for the morals of these measures, I feel inclined to a Nietzsche quoute; He who fights with monsters might take care, lest he thereby become a monster.

Mindful of this quoute, one must also regard to the logic of Mr Harris, the architect of the demise of so many metropoles of Europe. In his report he states that the Germans had lost 2 400 000 000 manhours in the raid (on Hamburg) at a (British) expense of 116 500 tonnes of dropped bombs. Thus average kill per dropped tonne of bombs was 20 500 German manhours (derived from number of German workers killed or effectively maimed). That's about a fourth of the manhours needed to construct a Lancaster bomber. Thus, a Lancaster needed only to reach one German city and drop her load in order to reach break-even, in costs. Every mission after that was sheer profit.

In fact, profits were increased by more refined use of firestorms, as tried out in Hamburg. By dropping firebombs in a circle, it was found, one created a vacuum in the middle, causing a firestorm of tremendous devatastation. Which made it possible to kill even more manhours at a highly reduced cost in tonnes of bombs.

Turnaround rates also matters here. Factories could be rapidly rebuilt, sometimes within days. Skilled labour however, took months to replace, even years.

As for how the "pilots" (bomber crews) felt about it all, there is a poem written by the American Mr Randall Jarrell, who served with them, with the title "Losses"; In bombers named for girls, we burned The cities we had learned about in school - Till our lives wore out; our bodies lay among The people we had killed and never seen.

How do you feel about it all Dave? Why do you feel the Allies should have spared the German workers (regardless of sex and age)? How do you mean, non-combattant?

Sincerely Tommy

ReplyDresden was NOT an industrial city and its military significance was minimal. When bombing Dresden the RAF (and USAAF) deliberately attacked a non-miliatry target. What's more, the raid took place in February 1945 when war in Europe was nearly over.

As for the death toll, the figure of 135,000 is far too high. Among (serious) historians the figure was for a long time 35,000 and more recently has fallen further to about 25,000-30,000. This is based on careful research.

Not an Industrial City?Quote from The Dresden Chamber of Commerce 1944. "The work rhythm of Dresden is determined by the needs of our army."

There were 127 factories in the Dresden Municipal area. The most

famous of these was Zeiss the celebrated camera and optics maker. In 1945 it was turning out Bomb aiming apparatus and Time fuses. (If you think the Dresden China Works making those lovely shepherdesses are more famous, they are actually made in Meisen 12Km down the River and always have been.)

A factory that previously made Typewriters and sewing machines was making Guns and ammunition

The Waffle and Marzipan machine manufacturer was producing torpedoes for the Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe.

The Arts and Crafts workshops in the old town were using their woodworking skills to make the tail assemblies for V-1s.

Other factories were turning out such non warlike goods as Searchlights, Aircraft components, Field Telephones and 2 way radios.

Yet another quote, "Anyone who knows Dresden only as a cultural city would be very surprised to be made aware of the extensive and versatile activity that make Dresden ONE OF THE FOREMOST INDUSTRIAL LOCATIONS OF THE REICH. (My Capitals)

Sir Arthur Harris? A Post war exponent of the bombing campaign?

Nope both wrong.

It comes from the Dresden City Council Yearbook of 1942.

This question has been endlessly debated by historians, members of the military, and just plain private citizens. It will probably never have a definitive answer. But the fact remains that the original plans for the bombing came from both Prime minister Winston Churchill and Chief Air Marshall Sir Arthur Harris, known to many as "Bomber" Harris for his staunch belief in the use of superior airpower to eradicate not just military targets but entire cities. Churchill viewed the destruction as retribution for the Nazi bombing of Coventry. That city did have military significance but the Luftwaffe destroyed many cultural sites including its main cathedral. Obliterating Dresden, known as "der Elbflorenz" (the Florence of the Elbe) for its many cultural treasures, was seen as just payback for the Nazis' atrocities.

See Related LinksSee the Related Link for "Sir Arthur Harris bio" to the right for additional information.